Legacy's problems

[Calix]

1. Playerbase, not enough to start, dwindled to like 3 small guilds by the end.

2. Moved too far from p25 itself, Shame just turned out to be a bad idea, should have left things like barbed kits to be claimed in a more 'trammel' way

3. RunUO/Razor just don't feel quite right.

4. An AoS shard will never succeed whilst OSI are still running AoS based servers, need OSI to close UO:(

Any more?

[Kristoff]

the 2 biggest Problems are this..

1.) the "Free Shard" mentality, They Seem to know they can get away with murder so the Attitude etc is shocking. which leads me onto point 2.)

2.) Speedhaxx0ring - again a massive problem across all Free Shards, again goes with the mentality of the "free loading Cunts"

[Calix]

Yeah very true. Speedhacking and that fucking RunUO client all the freesharders were using.

[Mercury]

i know i get slated for this every time i say it, LONGITIVITY!

making things harder to get creates goals, but these things in turn cant be allowed to be dominated by those who get to them first.

for example, shame/pscrolls/arenas, freedoms 24/7 uo crew owned them hardcore and then made it very hard to compete once they'd got what they required.

these things need to be harder to aquire and less easy to dominate, i agre with bkits being a kinda trade thing. but i also agree that you should be able to get them from pvm. i like the idea of "building" to a reward thru pvm. you kill enough stuff (fame adds/hardness of creature/maybe a exp system where once you hit that level you get a decent drop) but this stuff is all hidden, its not leveling or farming and you dont know what gives best exp etc. you just pvm and if you spend long enough at it you get your rewards. (the gem idea was almost this but to me strays to far away from fundamental P25)

this leads me to my next point, P25 should be p25 (with the few things ironed out and the crap things in uo made better) for example luck. a good luck system would do wonders, maybe tie it to the exp idea, more luck multiples the exp gained etc) to make it achieveable to solo and get the best stuff, but still have to work bloody hard.

basically what im saying is, P25 was awesome, keep the fundamentals and fix what osi never did, luck/loot/pvp balance and whatever else i cant think of that osi fucked up.

lub merc

ps im awaiting the day legacy reopens, pretty plz nox

[Mercury]

soz, for 2 posts...

skill gain, everybody hates it, but the feeling you get when u gm or 120 it after a few days work is much better than if u 5x120 in a days macroing.

also keeps away the total cunts abit because its not on a plate for you.

[Lady Redname]

these things need to be harder to aquire and less easy to dominate, i agre with bkits being a kinda trade thing. but i also agree that you should be able to get them from pvm. i like the idea of "building" to a reward thru pvm. you kill enough stuff (fame adds/hardness of creature/maybe a exp system where once you hit that level you get a decent drop) but this stuff is all hidden, its not leveling or farming and you dont know what gives best exp etc. you just pvm and if you spend long enough at it you get your rewards. (the gem idea was almost this but to me strays to far away from fundamental P25)

most people dont want stuff like that to take a long time is the problem, i dont have as much time as i did 4 years ago. most of the people who played uo years ago have now grown up a bit, got lives, jobs etc.. i know most of i-c have. also if you want a long secure server and you love uo that much you will play osi, until they close as calix said


i dont think a pr shard will have enough players/longlivity (is that a word?) until osi uo is gone

[Angus]

I agree with Merc.

A REAL shard had goals for you to try and achieve, but the problem a free shard has is it needs to attract a community right away, so a harder server cant do that, its simple.
Free shard UO players want SET SKILL 102012010101010 and instant action, we former UO players dont ,we want that community and knowing that logging in will get you a different player and attitude almost everytime.

The reason I never tried Legacy was due to a few posts I saw, I could tell a majority of the shard were pricks, who didnt want to help the shard, but gain as much as they could.

Its a shame, because people like Noxin really could do a job, and I would happily partake, even with a subscription fee if I knew it was being used for the best of the shard and would secure the long term future.

Yeah, my say

[Calix]

Yeah pretty much what Slamer said. Powergamers like Merc and Nix thrive on the PvM challenge. Problem is most people hate it, same reason most people quit Legacy

I don't see making startup hard a good idea. Becouse people quit before they are established.

Can see what you're saying Merc, but for long term goals you need to look at things like making 120 scrolls harder to get, or only allowing people who already used 115's to use 120.

Working harder(playing more, basically) should give you a small reward/advantage, ie having 120s when everyone else stuck with 115s or something like that, not having finished suit when everyone else running around in 2/4 with 20 LMC.

Legacy was a fucking great trial run becouse it lasted long enough to see what worked and what didn't. A lot of our idealistic ideas(Shame) didn't work, and most caps(lmc, sdi) prob weren't needed. Ofc HP cap was needed, and same goes for a few more probably, but now we know already know doesn't work and what does.

[Nixon]

The whole Shame idea would have worked in my opinion if it was spread across the Dungeons, also dynamically across the levels of the dungeons - how easy it would be to vary the spawn place of a Doom boss is questionable though.

This would mean that no one pk guild could dominate the items like what happened at Shame. It also gives people a reason other than Champs to venture round either in PKing terms or PvM terms each dungeon. The same problem existed on Legacy that faced UO in that some dungeons are left to rot while others strive because of a particular monster.

The whole Dungeon system needed a bit of a face lift, and of course you can then begin to look at the PvP aspects and changes needed accosiated with each dungeon

[Noxin]

From my point of view, here are the major problems Legacy had.

Dedication; Without my constant 18 hour a day dedicated administration everything would fall apart, I was flying solo with a little in-game support help, though that slowly started to dwindle too, I guess because it's not fun, and why would anyone spend their free time doing something they didn't enjoy?

Support calls; These really pissed me off at times, I'd get people shouting and ranting at me like I owed them something, because they played on my server and I should be grateful for that.
Childish bullshit, like "omg I can't log into my account, I think I've been hacked" when they'd given away their account details to a friend, who then stripped their account. This happened more times than I'd like to say.

Security; Things like speedhacks and scripts really bought the shard down, while I did what I could to counter speedhacking, there was simply nothing I could do to be 100% sure someone was or wasn't using one. In the end I resorted to blatent accusations and warnings in an attempt to scare people into not using them on the off chance I was right.

Cost; Initially Legacy recieved a nice amount of donations, but when you're paying 150 pounds a month, small one-off donations just don't cut it. I couldn't afford the bills, that I have only just this week finished paying off, after Legacy closed 5 months ago. I did recieve an offer of a free server at one point, but the person offering it wanted GM access to the server, which seemed wrong to me, like I would be comprimising my personal integrity over a few quid.

Playerbase; I originally intended for Legacy to be somewhere for my friends (and enemies) from UO to play, not for freeshard bred faggots who enjoyed nothing more than to make my life harder, though these were a neccasary asset in order to increase the playerbase, dealing with them was purely headache stuff.

Time; No-one really knows the amount of time I sunk into the project, I would wake up, work on Legacy, then sleep (if there was time left) and it was costing me money to do it. I was running myself into the ground and getting no satisfaction from it.
I loved coding a great new idea, the NPC mages I slaved over for example, developing their AI was great fun.
But I couldn't do that stuff without feeling guilty that I was neglecting some other aspect of my "job"

I think this can all be condensed into a few lines. I felt overworked, It was costing me money and I wasn't having any fun.

Like others have said, an idea like Legacy can't really work until the official UO servers are gone, people will stop comparing and start to enjoy what they're given, and it will take time to build up, there have to be dedicated players willing to put up with slow times where not many people are on, in order to attract others.
There also has to be more long term appeal and planning, Shame was a decent idea, but it didn't work.

Running and horse stamina, I just couldn't get my head around how so many people who claim to be PvPers would run like giant pussies given the chance to. Horse stamina needed to be in right from the start, Bolas needed to be fixed, and other ideas should have been brainstormed to deal with this situation.

The arena, it was a decent idea, but in practice it rewarded faggots, allying up and bringing excessive numbers. Also the 4 artifacts where pointless, people only wanted the gloves.
This ties into events nicely, people expected GM sponsored events for entertainment rather than going out and making their own fun. More attention should have been paid to game systems promoting this, and not comprimising and meeting them halfway.

There's still tons more I could come up with but this will do for now.

[Calix]

Oh and agreed @ skillgain Merc. to 100 should be as it was, past that needs to be an achievement. Should have to spend 20+ hours from gm to 120 magery, then it's an achievement. Can't see any point making it hard to macro to 100 though, you can have fun @ 100, you can't @ 70.

[pain]

You can't make it over difficult to start up.

What you should do is allow everyone one free 5xgm char per account, and rigidly limit the accounts number to 2. Then counter this by making it harder to train and pvm.
It will seem a lot easier and will make 'getting in' easier but in the end it will still take work and you will feel like you have done something when you complete a char or a suit.

[Mercury]

from a player side off things, i just feel uo is about acheiveing, be it slaying the hardest mobs or winning that pvp or just getting to 120...that was the great magic of uo.

so yeh carix i understand to gm being easy enough but to 120 from gm, should take maybe 24hours? so you feel like uv acheived, and thats what makes uo great.

i also agree with you to sum extent carix, its about that balance of if you play alot and put in the time u get rewarded, but not crazyily over the casual gamer.

and from nox's point of view, i can fully understand why you gave it all up, and u have alot of my respect for what you did. i know if anybody could make it work you could, and id love to see legacy back in action, with a dedicated staff team, and a gd community. learning from what legacy showed us 1st time around...

[Angus]

I think the hardest thing with a free shard is getting the balance right between what we and others loved about UO, and introducing new ideas and aspects to make it feel somewhat fresh.

For me there is no, nor will their ever be a perfect free shard, I just cant see it being possible, theirs too many "what ifs" involved, its such a big gamble, and as Nox states, if its not backed properly its just not going to work.

I personally think getting a playerbase for a shard like legacy wouldnt be that hard, but getting a playerbase of players that wanted to particpate in the shards survival and future is near impossible. Look at this forum for example, lets just say most of I-C play it, and us few straggelers that still post here because we cant let UO die, thats a decent solid 20 playerbase, but thats not enough to draw masses in, and if it does, you know its gonna be players who want instant satisfaction within the game and no work.

The problem with free shards? Too many twinks who never experienced what UO was to alot of people.

Most of what Ive said has probably been stated already, but FU im hungover and needed my say !!!

[Mercury]

when legacy started thou, within a fortnight it was hitting 100+clients