Legacy 25 info from factionwar.com post

[Calix]

Sounds like a copy of one of my posts, but there's some stuff I'd forgotten:

Felucca old lands only. No trammel, malas, etc.

Implementation of perma-powerhour skillgain, and antimacro code removed.

Artifacts now spawn from champion spawn bosses, 1 per boss killed. No Doom.

Introduction of 'Arena' system. Old doom-stealable artifacts(Inquisitors resolution, etc) now spawn 1 per day(random artifact) at peak playtime, in a newly constructed arena with entrances around the map. The artifacts itself spawn in a chest protected by a puzzle similar the the old KhaldunPuzzle chests, and of course the area is PvP+ and made for combat, so these artifacts will need to be fought over and defended. Town criers will announce the time of spawning each day, and it will never be the same time two days running

Dungeon Shame returns as a focal point of PvP. Essentials such as emounts and barbed runic kits spawn here only.

Occlo Island becomes tram town, no PvP at all functions here, and is a place for new players to get started without any harrasment, whilst the loot required to work a new char, LRC items, etc, wil drop from the monsters here.

Private housing options disabled - no mini-Trammel's dotted across Felucca's landscape.

Town guards do not insta kill players for criminal actions, they will still however be very hard to survive against, and near impossible to kill.

Introduction of daily spawning rares, items in keeping with the feel of UO. Original items from OSI but ones never made available to players.

Ghosts logging into dungeons will be insta-kicked to chaos shrine - the end of ghost-camming spawns.

Improved faction system - Faction statloss lowered to 5 minutes, 5 chars per account allowed in factions(must be same faction) Control of faction towns now allows faction members to recieve an incremental damage bonus versus champion spawns and harrowers, based upon how many towns the faction controls at the time.

All crap removed. Crap means stuff added over the years not in keeping with UO's feel. This includes monsters such as Beetles.

PvP enhancements and other minor modifications.

Beneficial acts now allowed on red players within guardzone areas. (You will flag grey and freely attackable, but will not be guardwhacked) Reds can now play factions with no negatives.

ALL mount stamina halved from OSI level.

Ethereal mounting delay lowered.

LMC Capped @ 30%

SDI(item) capped at 10%

Mana Regen(item) capped at 10

HP Regen(item) capped at 12

Melee special moves mana cost unaffected by LMC - no more 5 mana special moves.

Minimum Special Move cost of 25, however, the formula will work like this, so dexxer characters can lower this.
Using the basic OSI formula, of the more dex skills you have the lower
the mana cost, any char with anatomy/tactics + a dex skill will recieve
a -10 bonus to the cost of special moves, so they will cost 20 mana not
30 for example.

Stamina, Mana and Hit points capped at 150

Removal of p25 changes to cure, arch cure and reveal spells- Reveal reveals hiders/stealthers again, and cure will cure DP and lower with 100% success. Arch cure 100% vs LP

Adjustment of bleed special move - Less ticks, but more damage per tick.

Chivalry fast cast capped at FC3 for ALL characters.

Introduction of bounty board system - no this does not mean statloss is back.

Reintroduction of oldstyle loot system - players can loot any corpse, and auto-loot is removed.

Spell channeling removed from wands and charges reduced to 1-10 per wand.

Increased % drop of 120 scrolls from champ spawns.

Minor artifacts and other small rewards such as dye tubs spawn in overland Felucca spawns such as Yew Liches.
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I think this shard will get a nice playerbase to

[Calix]

Ghosts logging into dungeons will be insta-kicked to chaos shrine - the end of ghost-camming spawns.

Improved faction system - Faction statloss lowered to 5 minutes

Beneficial acts now allowed on red players within guardzone areas. (You will flag grey and freely attackable, but will not be guardwhacked) Reds can now play factions with no negatives.


Melee special moves mana cost unaffected by LMC - no more 5 mana special moves.

Minimum Special Move cost of 25, however, the formula will work like this, so dexxer characters can lower this.
Using the basic OSI formula, of the more dex skills you have the lower
the mana cost, any char with anatomy/tactics + a dex skill will recieve
a -10 bonus to the cost of special moves, so they will cost 20 mana not
30 for example.


Removal of p25 changes to cure, arch cure and reveal spells- Reveal reveals hiders/stealthers again, and cure will cure DP and lower with 100% success. Arch cure 100% vs LP

Adjustment of bleed special move - Less ticks, but more damage per tick.

Opinions on those ?

[Fatalist]

Ghosts logging into dungeons will be insta-kicked to chaos shrine - the end of ghost-camming spawns.

CHOAS for reds, justice for blues? Should also be some kind of timer on it too, so you'd need to be logged out for say 10 minutes. This would apply to typical ghost cams (and rage loggers - hi cyric) but wouldn't make relogging 'an easy/fast way to get out of the dungeon when dead' if you intended to go back.

Improved faction system - Faction statloss lowered to 5 minutes

Can't even remember what it was initially, 30 mins? 5 seems a bit pointless really. Seems silly to pick a number until we know how the system will work but 5 is definitely too low imo. Takes nearly that to recall/restock etc.

Beneficial acts now allowed on red players within guardzone areas. (You will flag grey and freely attackable, but will not be guardwhacked) Reds can now play factions with no negatives.

I don't see any issues with this.

Melee special moves mana cost unaffected by LMC - no more 5 mana special moves.

Minimum Special Move cost of 25, however, the formula will work like this, so dexxer characters can lower this.
Using the basic OSI formula, of the more dex skills you have the lower
the mana cost, any char with anatomy/tactics + a dex skill will recieve
a -10 bonus to the cost of special moves, so they will cost 20 mana not
30 for example.

I like this, but we defo need to add the double mana cost for specials within 5 secs or whatever it was. Also need to look at the numbers since many wep mages will have anat/tact too.

Removal of p25 changes to cure, arch cure and reveal spells- Reveal reveals hiders/stealthers again, and cure will cure DP and lower with 100% success. Arch cure 100% vs LP

Include this. Part of the art of stealthing is to avoid being targeted by a reveal spell, 120 hide/stealth whatever shouldn't make you immune half the time.

Adjustment of bleed special move - Less ticks, but more damage per tick.

How did this look, less ticks over same duration, so they were wider apart? Or were the ticks close together and total duration longer? Not sure what I prefer, bleed was certainly a pain in the arse.

[Joe]

Melee special moves mana cost unaffected by LMC - no more 5 mana special moves.

Minimum Special Move cost of 25, however, the formula will work like this, so dexxer characters can lower this.
Using the basic OSI formula, of the more dex skills you have the lower
the mana cost, any char with anatomy/tactics + a dex skill will recieve
a -10 bonus to the cost of special moves, so they will cost 20 mana not
30 for example.

I like this, but we defo need to add the double mana cost for specials within 5 secs or whatever it was. Also need to look at the numbers since many wep mages will have anat/tact too.

Agreed, I like this too but maybe make it Anat+tactics and a wep skill instead then? that makes it more dexxer focused. This also adds another dimension to the suit makeup for certain dexxer types too, removing the need for LMC and instead going for more MR and +stats. Means more 'useful' items crafted from runics rather than having to be LMC MR for both mages and dexxers

[Calix]

Improved faction system - Faction statloss lowered to 5 minutes

Can't even remember what it was initially, 30 mins? 5 seems a bit pointless really. Seems silly to pick a number until we know how the system will work but 5 is definitely too low imo. Takes nearly that to recall/restock etc.

Anything that takes people out of PvP for longer than a few minutes = bad. Statloss should prevent people being ressed up and back in at full effectiveness almost straight away. Anything beyond that you're just punishing people needlessly and keeping them out of PvP. Having no stat at all didn't exactly ruin champ spawns, did it?

It was 20 mins originally.

[Nixon]

Improved faction system - Faction statloss lowered to 5 minutes

Can't even remember what it was initially, 30 mins? 5 seems a bit pointless really. Seems silly to pick a number until we know how the system will work but 5 is definitely too low imo. Takes nearly that to recall/restock etc.

Anything that takes people out of PvP for longer than a few minutes = bad. Statloss should prevent people being ressed up and back in at full effectiveness almost straight away. Anything beyond that you're just punishing people needlessly and keeping them out of PvP. Having no stat at all didn't exactly ruin champ spawns, did it?

It was 20 mins originally.

Two points that stand out for me are the Ghost Cams and your above response. Both agree 100%

[Fatalist]

Improved faction system - Faction statloss lowered to 5 minutes

Can't even remember what it was initially, 30 mins? 5 seems a bit pointless really. Seems silly to pick a number until we know how the system will work but 5 is definitely too low imo. Takes nearly that to recall/restock etc.

Anything that takes people out of PvP for longer than a few minutes = bad. Statloss should prevent people being ressed up and back in at full effectiveness almost straight away. Anything beyond that you're just punishing people needlessly and keeping them out of PvP. Having no stat at all didn't exactly ruin champ spawns, did it?

It was 20 mins originally.

I agree that you don't want to keep people out of PvP, but in raids and stuff you really relied on crippling the enemy otherwise it ended up as an hour long standoff of fields and area spells. I guess my point is, if you're going to add stat, make it significant, if not, why bother with it at all?

[Benn]

I think it needs to be somewhere in the middle. 5 mins just doesn't seem significant enough. How about 10?

[Calix]

I'd fall more on the side of 5 or nothing. Once you make being in factions too much of a disadvantage, a lot of people don't want to be in, and you end up with the OSI problem of half your PvP player base in it and half out..

First example that comes to mind - you recall to Destard, get bola'd and dismount ganked by 6 people within 20 seconds. You've then got to sit around waiting for 10 minutes before you can go back - you sit there frustrated, and by the time you get back, they're long gone.

[Joe]

the other option is to go the other way with it and increase the time to say 20mins but then reduce the statloss a bit % wise so that it's not cripplying but instead just makes you that bit less effective.

So in a big fight if you do get killed and ressed you can jump back into the action and be involved, but are still that little be less effective for the rest of that fight.

[Belgarion]

Melee special moves mana cost unaffected by LMC - no more 5 mana special moves.

Minimum Special Move cost of 25, however, the formula will work like this, so dexxer characters can lower this.
Using the basic OSI formula, of the more dex skills you have the lower
the mana cost, any char with anatomy/tactics + a dex skill will recieve
a -10 bonus to the cost of special moves, so they will cost 20 mana not
30 for example.

I like this, but we defo need to add the double mana cost for specials within 5 secs or whatever it was. Also need to look at the numbers since many wep mages will have anat/tact too.

Agreed, I like this too but maybe make it Anat+tactics and a wep skill instead then? that makes it more dexxer focused. This also adds another dimension to the suit makeup for certain dexxer types too, removing the need for LMC and instead going for more MR and +stats. Means more 'useful' items crafted from runics rather than having to be LMC MR for both mages and dexxers

Formula as stated originally would absolutely wreck dexers.
Joes suggestion is more on the right track I feel, but not quite there. Certain templates would be shafted by this I believe.

I also feel that it would be harsh to put them all at 25 and be done with it. While I see the point of it, there is a sideeffect to it. I am of course referring to poison. Infectous Strike was always really low on the mana cost. But it really had to be. Putting a 25 mana cost on it (I think) will remove most forms of dex related poison templates.

So here is what im sort of thinking:

Either A:
Make it Tactics OR Anat to decide if you are viable for a dex related mana reduction on specials. (GM Needed)
The higher the dex, the higher the reduction. Lowest amount needed to be out of range for your average magey type. (60?)
Amount needed for the most reduction high, but attainable on a good suit without making major sacrifices (130-140? Dont really know about that one)

Or B:
Make DEX the decider for wether or not you are viable for skill related mana reduction on specials. (100 Needed)
The higher your Anat + Tactics, the higher the reduction. Max reduction attained at 120/120, with tiers for each 20 (total)
(Possible to make it Anat OR Tactics rather than a combination of the two, but i think the first one makes a bit more sense)

As for the poisoning issue:
Make it so that poisoning skill ALSO grants an extra mana cost reduction on the Infectous Strike special move.



And then there is the issue of Cure having 100% success on DP, and ACure having 100% Success on LP.

I dont like it. Its basically saying "here mages, you dont ever have to worry about poison ever again". Dexers, you`re on your own. And people with poisoning skill? Well you might want to reconsider.



Then there is the bleed thing. Dont really know about that one. As someone asked: Will it reduce the duration of the special, or will the duration be the same?
And is this not a bit of a double nerf on special moves that people (mageslol?) dont like to fight against?

[Joe]

I like the idea to tie in dex also to the forumla too belg means more thought will need to be put in different template suits and desired stats etc

with regards to the bleed changes, I think we need to come up with this formula and the minimum for the specials before we change how bleed works. If the minimum is set right it should mean that you can't just constantly chain bleed forever, but it will be more of a choosing the right time to use it which is better imo.

I'm not sure about the cure and arch cure thing, what was the rules when we played p25? and what about cure pots too anyone remember the chance to cure for those also for the different poisons?

[Calix]

I don't think option A is really viable. B is possible.

Perhaps we'd be better off looking at it from another tact and just dynamically adjusting mana costs for all special moves - some of the useless specials could have big mana cost reductions - I still hold that specials should cost mages more mana than they do dexxers, though.

As far as poisoning goes, I'm not really sure. I think poisoning was pretty OP in p25, but not to the point where it was the only template played.

As far as dexxers go, I think the only thing we want to be limiting is stupid things like the necro/chiv/poison dexxer belg was testing. It's no fun to fight and doesn't even seem like a proper char to me.

[Calix]

Full specials list:

Armour Ignore
Armour Pierce <--- SE?
Bleed
Block <--- SE?
Concussion
Crushing
Defense Mastery <--- SE?
Disarm
Dismount
Disrobe <--- wtf?
Doubleshot
Doublestrike
Dual Wield <--- SE?
Feint <--- SE?
Frenzied Whirlwind <--- SE?
Infectious Strike
Mortal
Moving Shot
Nerve Strike <--- SE?
Para Blow
Riding Swipe <--- SE?
Shadow Strike <--- SE?
Talon Strike <--- SE?
Weapon Ability <--- wtf?
Whirlwind Attack

From that, not including the SE onwards and the ones I don't know, I'd personally list them in this order:

Very good:
Mortal
AI
Bleed
Disarm
Infectious

Good:
Para
Conc
Crushing
Dismount
Moving Shot

Poor:
Double shot
Double strike
Whirlwind

Is that anywhere near right?

[Belgarion]

Full specials list:

Armour Ignore
Armour Pierce <--- SE? Yes. On that ninjabow thingy
Bleed
Block <--- SE? Dont know
Concussion
Crushing
Defense Mastery <--- SE? Dont know
Disarm
Dismount
Disrobe <--- wtf? WTF
Doubleshot
Doublestrike
Dual Wield <--- SE? No idea
Feint <--- SE? Yes
Frenzied Whirlwind <--- SE? Yes. On the big ninja sword kinda thing (two-handed katana kind of thing)
Infectious Strike
Mortal
Moving Shot
Nerve Strike <--- SE? Yes. Bokuto stun.
Para Blow
Riding Swipe <--- SE? Yes. Big ninja sword thingy. Stunf if mounted, dismount if unmounted. Real OP.
Shadow Strike <--- SE? Dont think so. Think it was dagger special that would send you stealth after hit if you succeeded skill check.
Talon Strike <--- SE? Yes
Weapon Ability <--- wtf? No idea.
Whirlwind Attack

From that, not including the SE onwards and the ones I don't know, I'd personally list them in this order:

Very good:
Mortal
AI
Bleed
Disarm
Infectious

Good:
Para
Conc
Crushing
Dismount
Moving Shot

Poor:
Double shot
Double strike
Whirlwind

Is that anywhere near right?

I`d put in some chages I think. If AI is capped at 45, then conc blow takes its place. (Its really quite strong).
Double strike and whirlwind should be labeled as "situational" I feel. Whirlwind with titans hammer or blaze of the dead = v good in the right curcumstance.
Double strike with big damage + on-hit effect = pretty good.