Crafting then

[Calix]

Just to try and centralize the topic.

We all agree they need to be more relevant in AOS, and have an increased 'social aspect'.

So far we've decided:

1. Only 2 characters per player - not everyone will have their own personal 'mule'
2. Repair deeds won't be available, you'll need to actually use a smith.
3. Reduced durability on items(100 max)

Other ideas suggested:
1. Items guaranteed to eventually break(not a fan of this, especially with unreproducable stuff from runic kits and hammers, etc)
2. Only allowing crafting in towns, or giving bonuses to crafting in towns.
3. Giving them more faction 'duties'
4. New craftables(like Noxin has suggested in Fatal's pot thread)

Loads more been posted on the forum I'm sure, not got time to go through them atm.

[Joe]

as we are getting rid of powder of fort, is it worth giving a top (120) crafter the chance when they repair at item to actually increase the dur a little? i know there is a chance to reduce it also depending on skill too. Just thinking that without powder of fort your number 1 point will be true as everything will eventually break,
or some other way for those crafters to have more of an influence on the item cycle maybe?

edit: maybe link it into your second point of repairing using town anvils etc?

[Mercury]

i know you dont want bods clx, but you need to make making a mule more rewarding. you all know what we'd do on a mule. farm for x gold, buy x ingots, leather. make 15`5`5`5126426324 x item. be gm/120.

i like how wow had a system of tiering similar to uos, but more like items only last 1-3% skill brackets, and then 110+ id really like to see better skill gain but on items that are hard to craft (not ggs but similar, ie you make a tunic of attards doom req 119 skill, its definatly +0.1 skill. but attards tunic of doom requires normal amount of barbed + brain of attard (pvm item/tmap/chests/doom mobs/champ drops (like skulls).

make say these pvm items make "brsk" quality item.

just my 2p on making crafting entertaining/valued (couple with the town shit ^^ and char limits etc)

[Fatalist]

I love the idea of custom craftable items/enhancements etc, similar to a cross between diablo/wow I guess. Main considerations include

- try to maintain a reasonable amount of items, not overwhelm people with the option to make 793 different types of special gorgets etc
- rare craftable armor/weps don't necessarily need to be pvp items.
- how easy is it to actually code without fucking it up
- please can we make it not gimmicky, it's systems like this that are introduced because they're exciting and new, but without proper planning (LONG term) and control, they just become overwhelming and shit


You could include secondary crafting items, like using a rod of griggs' cock in conjunction with a brsk has a chance to make the item have extra aids resistance, but uses a charge from both items without knowing what the 'base' item crafted by brsk is going to be anyway. Fairly sure this is overcomplicating things though.

[Fatalist]

Oh and I really am against the flat out removal of bods. They're a great resource sink, with crafters often buying thousands of leather from PvMers for example. Same for miners selling ingots etc. They need to be revamped and improved, not removed. Doesn't necessarily need to be introduced on launch imo.

[Mercury]

id just reduce the choice of bods, make there not 1351361616 lbods to fill.

and i want a griggs cock of aidz resistance, woulda saved me getting bad aidz from you

and i agree wholeheartedly about 3727 special gorgets, you only need a few high end, craftable "rares" , i like infact your 1 time use +stat items applyable by only a tailor/bs that adds 1-100% on a property for example, or downright just adds an extra property. something along these lines would give pvmers another farmable item/crafters something only they do/pvpers/ego maniacs another source of "drive" to ever improve there 1337 suit.

[Joe]

if we are going to attract all type of players right off the bat we do need something in place for launch though otherwise we just won't get that influx of players during hype of launch, which will make it hard to get them in after i reckon

[Fatalist]

KLOR I disagree - there need to be things that are added over time to retain interest of the incumbent playerbase. BODS by their very nature can't be used until there is a steady income of resources/wealth, and GM+ skill. Makes it a redundant feature on Day 1.

Doesn't mean we can't/won't have them, in whatever form they may take, but it's not an essential requirement, particularly with some of the other stuff that's planned. I guess there just needs to be a lot of thought applied to the synergies between crafting disciplines and the interaction with different playstyles and their impact on the crafting profession.

We need career crafter input really, what do any of us know

[Joe]

fully agree that things need to be added over time mate, but if you start with nothing, few of that player type will bother as there is nothing there for them until x months down the line, you really do need to start with something just to tickle their interest imo

edit: thinking about crafter we know, what was the name of those 2 who ran a shop near our gh? terry and pertra or something? anyone still have contact?

[Mercury]

terry and petra fyde, i have contact details for them. i mean i did alot of crafting myself too, but not on the scale of these guys. i did "fel" crafting, ie/ armour/pots/bolas that shit. i dont think i ever made an armoire or had carpentry for example.

personally the best "system" iv thought of in last few hours is something like this;

Gems for all stats (ie lmc/fire resist/etcetc)

gems come in 5 varietys. +0-20% 20-40% 40-60% 60-80% 80-100% (when you apply gives this % of max, ie 8lmc, so 7-8 LMC added on a tier 5 gem)

Ie/ 5 tiers (find a theme thats fits uo, ie "a gem of lower mana cost" and when you click it it shows "intense power"

These gems are applied by career traders ie/

Tier 1 = 60 tailor/60 bs
Tier 2 = 80/80
Tier 3 = 100/100
Tier 4 = 110/110
Tier 5 = 120/120

1 gem per item, can be overridden, chance of failure on item similar to enhanceing? "You fail to apply gem of lower mana cost, the gem is destroyed" (item loses 1-5 dura?)

[Calix]

I had a read up about the BOD system seems as you lot are all so insistent it remains. I don't see any particular problem with them from the system, with the rewards being available as PvM loot as well now. My only concern is all the hostility I saw towards the system from crafters when I asked about it on stratics.

[Calix]

As far as Merc's crafting idea - I'm not necessarily against it but we need to keep an ideas as simplistic as possible and not make it extra hassle compared to OSI to get a suit sorted.

[Calix]

I guess there just needs to be a lot of thought applied to the synergies between crafting disciplines and the interaction with different playstyles and their impact on the crafting profession.

This is spot on and really needs a lot of thought. It's completely over my head.

[KoKane]

Well even with some people not having mules, in this day and age they will probably share a mule between a guild :/
In any case, I think its worth making it so real crafters dont have to compete with mules.

- When repairing, make it cost something. (something minor obviously but something only a crafter can loot/make?)[But whats to stop a pvp'r or tamer stockpiling it... hmm .. Give it a use-by date and it becomes some generic trash item - Some items that tinkers can make even? Spare parts / Rusted Spare parts. This would make active and proper crafters have a big advantage already]
- When repairing, make it only repair a couple dura per whack of the hammer. I think its a bit silly to click repair and the weapon is perfect again. Level of craftskill determines max points repaired?


Also on the point of items eventually being destroyed. It seems shit at first but its like a little fear players would overcome.
If you consider how long an item will last vs how many Runics you will get in that items lifetime and then consider the population as a whole doing the same thing. There is going to be lots of stuff in circulation and it might just be balanced. A player loses those gloves which fitted perfectly.
Hes mad at first but hes going to throw on his second best pair and away with him.. and now hes looking for the perfect ones again.
Dont forget its only 2 chars per player.

This is where repairing will play a big issue. Even more demand of repairs would mean even more demand for a dedicated crafter - if the first point above is in play too.


edit -
Another idea.
What if instead of being destroyed, an item is reduced to an useable state, requiring a special kind of repair job.. another way of buffing crafters in terms of making them wanted and important.

I think what made crafters die out was how boring it became that anyone could hop on a mule and click the tool, click the option in the gump and click the targeted weapon or whatever.
BODS tried to spice things up a little but that was it.

Trading, working prices for stock and the sessions infront of a forge is what crafters like but it all became ultimately pointless as the economy naturally swells. PvP'rs and Tamers can make their own money. They farm their own items and the demand dies down so much that a crafter cant ask for good prices. Only raw materials become that desirable.
I think an important thing to note is that it wont be about what Crafters do. Its going to be about how they do it.

Like I mentioned above, what if they had to go out and farm some type of item. Not farm in the Darkfall sense of the word and give up their life.. but something that has a droprate pretty high for anyone with a good amount of skillpoints spent in crafting schools. (make the item specific to certain craftmanships?)
This would seem like an unneccesary addon. Something tedious and time consuming. But perhaps a crafter who does nothing else, might enjoy the little break where he can shut up shop and farm some easy mobs like Mongbats or whatever. They could still drop the item since it doesnt need to be hard. Whats the point? Well it almost makes generic mules pointless.
A mule would almost become an active crafter.
Ofcourse you could have tiny droprates for normal pvprs or tamers to allow for some trading of whatever the items would be. Stuff like that.

[Calix]

Right this is really something we need some input on.

Atm we've got some ideas from Merc and KoKane, both of which are workable, but I'm concerned going down either path is differing too much from what UO was actually like.

Beyond that, all we've got is:

Item durability lowered.
Chance to increase/decrease dur. on an item when repaired is heavily related to smith/tailor skill.
Faction duties. Traps, items possibly.
Crafting bonuses in towns.

This is the one area we're completely without direction or guidance really.

A little thought - if we were to offer bonuses for crafting in towns - higher chance of skill gain, higher chance of positive outcome with item durability increase rather then decrease, etc etc.
What if, to get this bonus, a player had to 'hire' a slot in a NPC vendor shop? There could only be 1-2 people allowed to hire this slot per town - it'd basically mean that particular shop would become 'owned' by that player. The bonus to crafting would be big enough to encourage people to use these craftsmen for their repairs, or to make their barbed kits, or whatever, and they'd gain reputations and become important parts of the shard. It'd be like "I'm off to Nixon's in Brit to try and get this stuff repaired"

..this probably doesn't make much sense because I'm writing it as I think, but am I on the right track here?