Crafting changes/new system - the idea

[Calix]

Right, this is the plan. Intended to return crafters to how they were pre-UOR, in combination with lack of trammel and a working economy - as well as making certain useless skills useful again.

A few ways to achieve the aims, both in coding and theory. Oz is going to chime in with coding options when he can.

The changes:
Runic kits of all kinds cease to exist. As PvM loot, BOD rewards, or whatever. Crafters regain the ability to craft competitive items(which in AOS means runic quality)without the need for runics. The quality will be decided just by crafter skill level and material type. No jumping through hoops to get rewards. If you work to harvest the materials and work your skill up, you can make the best items. How it used to be.

Secondary skills will now come into the equation. For example. Arms Lore will become the required secondary for Blacksmithing. For this Smith to have the best possible chance to create an item with maximum mods and the highest intensities of these mods, he would need to have GM(120 even better) Smithing and Arms Lore. He would also be using Valorite or Verite Ingots. If he were to use Gold or Agapite Ingots, the chances would be reduced slightly. A further reduction would occur for Copper or Bronze.

'Special' wood types (as released by ML, I think?) would be used to determine the same for Fletching. I need to look into these. Obviously the various types of leather would do the same for tailoring.

Oz's tinker kits would need to be modified. Either the kits would be made available on vendors as a normal purchase, or the properties of them could be transferred to normal tinker kits. Whichever was easiest. To prevent the mass use of these kits and the flooding of the market with tons of overpowered jewelry, the resource requirement would be increased massively. Say 50 Gems/Ingots a time. This would obviously increase the importance of the harvesting skills. Fishing will be put in place as the easiest/fastest way to gain large quantities of the gem's required, both making the skill useful again - and creating a secondary way(beyond pvm) for them to be obtained.

Using another ML or SE(I forget) idea, Scribes will be able to craft spelllbooks with AOS mods. Obviously limited below the stupid things available on OSI. This is to make the skill important again as a craft skill and not just something for PvPers. To differentiate between 'craft' and 'pvp' scribes, Item ID will be the secondary skill required in the creation of these books. I'm not actually sure how these worked with materials etc as of yet, I need to look into it. I'm also thinking of using cooking here as a 'harvesting' skill. Creating something to use in the making of spellbooks. This might be uneccessary complications? I was just thinking of making cooking useful again, but seeming like less of a good idea when I think about the coding.

Alchemy Poisoning and Carpentry were basically untouched by AOS as far as crafting goes. Been thinking of adding Taste ID as a secondary skill to Alchemy/Poisoning for the creation of 'greater' potions, simply to help prevent the 'super mule' type chars with loads of craft skills, although this might be overkill?

Does this make sense? In summary, crafters are becoming relevant again just with skills + materials. No boring BOD shit, no relying on PvM. Some useless skills are being factored in and made useful. 'Mule' chars aren't possible because of the need for secondary skills. Oz's fletching/tinkering improvements are modified slightly, and Inscription is made relevant as a craft skill again with craftable spell books. Fishing becomes a viable skill again due to gems. Cooking may also be factored in in some way. Lumberjacking and Mining become viable options as a main source of income because their ingots/boards will be highly valued.

Really appreciate any input. Without a good crafting system we really can't make an AOS shard work.

[Calix]

For an individual skill break down, here's how I see it working:

Secondary Skills:

Arms Lore - works for Smithing, Tailoring, Fletching.
Item ID - works for Tinkering and Inscription.
Taste ID - works for Alchemy and Poisoning.

That's 3 useless skills improved, as well as making crafter templates a bit more cramped, forcing a certain amount of specialisation.

Harvesting Skills:

Fishing - Now important for Tinkering. The best way to get Gems, which will always be in short supply.
Mining - Increased relevance due to importance of higher quality ingots.
Lumberjacking - As for mining but with boards.
Cooking - Possibly used in Scribe process, although I'm leaning away from this now.


Other ideas -

1. Faster durability losses to make repairs a more frequent affair - people will need to use 'community' crafters more.
2. Improved item enhancement for PvM loot. Not really thought about this yet.

[Calix]

How did it work with mining special ingots? Am I right in thinking there were certain places where you could get them, or did you have a chance anywhere?

[Calix]

http://www.uoguide.com/Barbed_Leather

I actually didn't realise that horned leather is basically as good/better than spined.

[zole]

special ingots worked in that some spots had special ore there. I think it was different from shard to shard, but it was static. So people had runebooks of valorite mining spots, for example.

there was also a special pickaxe (no idea where it comes from now) which you could use to "up" the level of the vein you were mining.

[Nixon]

Gargoyle pickaxe, they were looted from Stone Gargoyles or normal Gargoyles, dunno what the chance of drop was. It was basically a super strength pickaxe with about 100 charges and boosted the miners chance of ore by +1. i.e. If you could only mine copper, with the axe you could mine tin.

Here is where you could tie in the special ignots. There used to be a % of a chance to spawn an Ore elemental, maybe 1 or 2 per pickaxe I can't remember.

All in all I like the changes.

Edited to say, I believe they did/going to implement dynamic mining so that you couldn't just go to particular spots and mine Valorite. I can't remember for sure though. So one day you would mine Valorite then basically once its been fully mined, it would change to Copper and the spot would move on somewhere else. Probably griefy to code and not important though.

[Calix]

Cheers boys. What do you think about cramping the templates with the secondary skills?

I can't really remember what the typical 'mule' was like anymore. Something like Smith/Mine/Tailor/Tinker/Lumber/Carpentry/Alchemy? I guess some had scribe or magery or poisoning in place of one or more of those.

Shard = 2 chars per person, presumably most people will have PvP char + PvM char or Picker or T-hunter or Crafter. I guess maybe 1 person in 5 will pick crafter as their secondary at most, simply because it's a char type that takes dedication to build, and work to make money out of. That means we're limiting the amount of possible crafters already. By then making each person specialize due to secondary skills, we're hopefully making the 'masters' of most craft skills quite rare. It would also hopefully mean that not all crafters could harvest their own resources, creating greater trade between players.

If you wanted to make leather, weapons, potions and jewelry, you'd need; Smithing/Tailoring/Alchemy/Tinkering, as well as Arms Lore/Item ID/Taste ID. Leaving no room for any gathering skills, and still missing out on Inscribe/Fletching/Poisoning. That's probably not really workable, so you'd need to drop at least one of the primary/secondary combinations, leaving room for a harvesting skill and magery, or whatever. That's how it should be instead of 'super mules' IMO.

Thoughts?

[Calix]

Meant to say this earlier; I really think this system would actually be more fun for crafters than it ever was in UO. Pre-AOS you just made mundane items. Post AOS you couldn't even make anything worthwhile unless you were rich/lucky enough to have lots of runics. This system will make crafting actually a fun class to play, with the possibility that you can make something great every time you craft. I'm a bit in love with the idea. Lets perfect it!

[Mercury]

i would actually have a crafter over a thunter if this was implemented, and that says alot about how it could be fun, that id even contemplate that

[Nixon]

Cheers boys. What do you think about cramping the templates with the secondary skills?

I can't really remember what the typical 'mule' was like anymore. Something like Smith/Mine/Tailor/Tinker/Lumber/Carpentry/Alchemy? I guess some had scribe or magery or poisoning in place of one or more of those.

Shard = 2 chars per person, presumably most people will have PvP char + PvM char or Picker or T-hunter or Crafter. I guess maybe 1 person in 5 will pick crafter as their secondary at most, simply because it's a char type that takes dedication to build, and work to make money out of. That means we're limiting the amount of possible crafters already. By then making each person specialize due to secondary skills, we're hopefully making the 'masters' of most craft skills quite rare. It would also hopefully mean that not all crafters could harvest their own resources, creating greater trade between players.

If you wanted to make leather, weapons, potions and jewelry, you'd need; Smithing/Tailoring/Alchemy/Tinkering, as well as Arms Lore/Item ID/Taste ID. Leaving no room for any gathering skills, and still missing out on Inscribe/Fletching/Poisoning. That's probably not really workable, so you'd need to drop at least one of the primary/secondary combinations, leaving room for a harvesting skill and magery, or whatever. That's how it should be instead of 'super mules' IMO.

Thoughts?

Bear in mind your typical crafter probably won't have a PvP char, I would imagine it's more likely they'll have PvM+crafter. Your template is just about bang on the money although I'd say Magery was more popular (used for carpentry) and the benefits of being able to gate/cast evs etc.

I absolutely agree there should be no super mules and I think crafters will agree.

This system would rely heavily on crafters certainly in the long run and that can only be a good thing.

With the 2 char rule, it will certainly mean player interaction plays a much larger part as will reputations. Hopefully we can attract the player base to make it work.

[Calix]

Just looking at the actual skills and how to make the equations work and what we need to change. Just speculating. People that know the code will have a better idea of how to work it.

Primary skills:

Blacksmithing. I was thinking of working with the ingots in 4 bands. So normal ingots = normal crafting. copper/bronze ingots used = equivalent of copper/bronze runic. Same for gold/agapite and verite/valorite. Did crafter skill level affect the items a runic produces? Afaik it didn't? Should we make that a factor? As far as the secondary skill goes(Arms Lore), does it need to go into the item creation equation, or should it just affect whether you can craft with the type of ingots you are using or not? I guess that's simpler. So like you need say 99 Blacksmithing to use Verite Ingots, you'd also need 99 Arms Lore.

Fletching. Looking up the new wood types they introduced after we quit, there's Oak, Yew, Ash and Bloodwood, Heartwood and Frostwood. First thought = fuck the last 3 off, they sound and look like shit. So I think make it 4 tiered like Smithing. Normal boards being the lowest tier(normal crafting), Oak being the copper/bronze level, Ash as gold/aga, Yew as valo/verite. Arms Lore working as for Blacksmithing.

Tailoring. Again 4 bands. Normal leather for normal crafting, then spined, horned, barbed. Work the same as the above, including secondary skill.

Tinkering. Works slightly differently. Has the same ingot 'bandings' as Smithing, but also uses Gems to give a degree of customisation(as well as an extra requirement to increase rarity). Using Emeralds gives the basic spread of all possible mods. Using Saphires concentrates on cold/energy resists in favour of fire/poison, and using Ruby's does the opposite. Also has the secondary skill requirement, Item ID in this case.

Inscription. Not sure yet. I think Magery affects the quality of the books you can create on OSI.

Alchemy & Posioning work as before, just with the addition of the secondary skill requirement(taste ID)

Secondary skills:

I think the way to do it is to make them a requirement for whether you can work with a material. Like you need say 95 Fletching to work Yew wood currently, you'd now also need 95 Arms Lore. Or how you need 55 Smithing to work Copper ingots, you also need 55 Arms Lore. The secondary skills are Arms Lore(Fletching, Smithing, Tailoring) Item ID(Inscription, Tinkering) and Taste ID(Alchemy and Poisoning)

Harvesting skills:

Mining. Remains the same, although gains importance because Gems will become much more valuable. Will also make the top end ingots much rarer than on OSI. Finding a Valorite vein will be a big event on the same level as getting a Valorite Hammer.

Lumberjacking. Remains the same. Top level woods become rarer.

Fishing. I have no idea at all how this works. Never even tried to do it the whole time I played UO. Plan is for it to become the best way to get the gems needed for tinkering jewelry. Maybe add some other rewards as well. Simple change I guess.

Cooking. Given up on the idea of including it for now.

Going to look at enhancing once I actually get some time off to research how scribe/fishing work first.

[Mercury]

That sounds bang on to me.

I would go with the option of skill limits what ingot etc you can use personally, otherwise you end up with a 50 tailor making barbed kit gloves etc from the get go (i choose gloves as i believe these are lowest skill item but my memory is terrible), after killing a few dragons?

[Mercury]

also i know this may sound gay...can we "mod" a skill or add a skill for skinning? to basically make leather farming the same as other resource gathering?

Adds a new template? because a "leather gatherer" will need skinning, but also skills to kill a dragon etc

[Joe]

If I remember correctly the skill level did effect the item when using runics, basically if you made it a 'exceptionally crafted whatever' it would have more initial stats than a normal crafted item, at that point the same runic bonus would be applied to each but the exceptionally crafted one would of course be better. So in a sense yes you can use runics at any skills level but it wasn't worth doing.

Just reading through the changes though, I would say I like the idea but I guess the devil will be in the detail and getting the right level of resource requirement will be key I think. You also have to factor in things like script miner/gatherer etc which will be there I am sure, which is why I liked the previously discussed idea of certain special item drops from mobs which aid crafting in some way (I can't remember who mentioned this).

I think being able to make val runic type of weapons without any limitations in this way though could also be dangerous and move the focus into crafting rather than PVM (which you want for the fights to happen etc) where you can just script up a load of materials overnight and make yourself a load of val weps with 0 effort, there isn't much player interaction with that to be honest so I think some way to link it to the PVM side of things would be good.

Just a few initial thought thats all, trying to think from the viewpoint of how can I abuse this system rather than from the making community side.

Do agree though getting rid of the need for bod crap to get runics is a must

[Calix]

Steve Parkerrrrrrrrr. Some seemingly relevant files. You've probably come across most before.

ore.cs <--- not sure if we need to touch this or not.
ingots.cs <--- as above.
hides.cs <--- as above. We want to increase rarity of Barbed and Horned.
resourceinfo.cs <--- not 100% sure what's in here but obviously relevant.
lumberjacking.cs <--- to turn on the ML woods, at least.
fishing.cs <--- Not sure what we need to do here, but I want to add a good chance of Gems/Gold being fished up.
mining.cs <--- This bit below is relevant for likelyhood of harvesting a certain type of Ingot, I think?:

Code: Select all

res = new HarvestResource[]
				{
					new HarvestResource( 00.0, 00.0, 100.0, 1007072, typeof( IronOre ),			typeof( Granite ) ),
					new HarvestResource( 65.0, 25.0, 105.0, 1007073, typeof( DullCopperOre ),	typeof( DullCopperGranite ),	typeof( DullCopperElemental ) ),
					new HarvestResource( 70.0, 30.0, 110.0, 1007074, typeof( ShadowIronOre ),	typeof( ShadowIronGranite ),	typeof( ShadowIronElemental ) ),
					new HarvestResource( 75.0, 35.0, 115.0, 1007075, typeof( CopperOre ),		typeof( CopperGranite ),		typeof( CopperElemental ) ),
					new HarvestResource( 80.0, 40.0, 120.0, 1007076, typeof( BronzeOre ),		typeof( BronzeGranite ),		typeof( BronzeElemental ) ),
					new HarvestResource( 85.0, 45.0, 125.0, 1007077, typeof( GoldOre ),			typeof( GoldGranite ),			typeof( GoldenElemental ) ),
					new HarvestResource( 90.0, 50.0, 130.0, 1007078, typeof( AgapiteOre ),		typeof( AgapiteGranite ),		typeof( AgapiteElemental ) ),
					new HarvestResource( 95.0, 55.0, 135.0, 1007079, typeof( VeriteOre ),		typeof( VeriteGranite ),		typeof( VeriteElemental ) ),
					new HarvestResource( 99.0, 59.0, 139.0, 1007080, typeof( ValoriteOre ),		typeof( ValoriteGranite ),		typeof( ValoriteElemental ) )
				};

			veins = new HarvestVein[]
				{
					new HarvestVein( 49.6, 0.0, res[0], null   ), // Iron
					new HarvestVein( 11.2, 0.5, res[1], res[0] ), // Dull Copper
					new HarvestVein( 09.8, 0.5, res[2], res[0] ), // Shadow Iron
					new HarvestVein( 08.4, 0.5, res[3], res[0] ), // Copper
					new HarvestVein( 07.0, 0.5, res[4], res[0] ), // Bronze
					new HarvestVein( 05.6, 0.5, res[5], res[0] ), // Gold
					new HarvestVein( 04.2, 0.5, res[6], res[0] ), // Agapite
					new HarvestVein( 02.8, 0.5, res[7], res[0] ), // Verite
					new HarvestVein( 01.4, 0.5, res[8], res[0] )  // Valorite

Folder: Scripts > Engines > Harvest > Core

Folder: Scripts > Engines > Craft > Core

Folder: Scripts > Items > Resources