New thread to finalise and know what we need to code seems as I filled the other up with irrelevant shit.
Removed = BODS, Runic Kits, Repair Deeds, Powder of Fortification/Translocation, Bags of Sending. I think with Solen crap deleted, BoS's and powder are gone automatically. I'll work out how to remove the BOD system. How were repair deeds made?
That's tiny anyway, on to the actual system:
With runics gone, crafters now create items of that level(or close) just by using their skill level with normal crafter tools, plus resources. They can then take the risk to enhance these items with an extra mod. The type of gem used allows you to customise what kind of mod you will get. Enhancing uses the Arms Lore skill to determine success/failure chance. Failure = item breaks.
The skills covered by this are the three 'runic' crafting skills from OSI(Smith, Tailor, Fletcher) as well as Tinkering to enable jewelry crafting.
50>70 skill in craft = 4th Tier Runic level item. Equivalent to using a dull copper hammer. 1-2 mods on item.
0>99.9 skill in craft = 3rd Tier Runic level item. So the same as if you were using a bronze hammer, or a spined sewing kit. 2-3 mods on item.
100.0>114.9 skill in craft = 2nd Tier Runic level item. Equivalent of an agapite hammer, or a horned sewing kit. 3-4 mods on item.
115.0>120.0 skill in craft = 1st Tier Runic level item. Equivalent of a valo hammer or barbed sewing kit. 4-5 mods on item.
The type of resource used in the creation of these items will influence the chance of certain mods. (Suggestions here please, just going with the first things in my head that roughly match how they worked on OSI) I've just picked a few examples/suggestions below, feel free to modify/improve.
Tailoring.
Normal Leather = No specialisation. 2 mods, regardless of crafter skill.
Spined Leather = Adds 5 physical resist, 40 Luck and 1-5 mods.
Horned Leather = Adds 2 phys, 5 fire, 5 cold. 3-5 mods.
Barbed Leather = Adds 2 phys, 5 poison, 5 energy. 4-5 mods.
Blacksmithing. Not sure if any additional mods required? Probably enough specialisation just going for resists + wep mods?
Iron Ingots = No specialisation and maximum of 2 mods, regardless of crafter skill.
Dull Copper & Shadow = Higher chance of physical resist and DI if wep.
Bronze & Copper = Higher chance of energy resist and SSI if wep.
Gold & Agapite = Higher chance of cold resist and SC if wep.
Verite = Higher chance of fire resist and DCI if wep.
Valorite = Higher chance of poison resist and HCI if wep.
Tinkering.
Iron = No additional mods, maximum of 2 mods regardless of crafter skill.
Dull Copper & Shadow = Phys resist and DI
Bronze & Copper = Energy resist and EP
Gold & Agapite = Fire resist and LMC
Verite = Cold resist and DCI
Valorite = Poison resist and SDI
Fletching.
Normal boards = No additional mods, maximum of 2 mods regardless of crafter skill.
Oak = HLD & DI
Ash = DCI & SSI
Yew = HCI & SSI
Other 'creating' craft skills:
Inscription. Scribes can make craftable spellbooks. Still haven't worked out the details, will do over next few days.
Alchemy, Carpentry & Poisoning. Unchanged from OSI in era.
Enhancing.
This provides the possibility for increased customisation. Uses the Arms Lore skill in combination with specific craft skill to calcualte success chance. 100 Arms Lore should = roughly 75% success chance when used with 120 craft skill. Failure = broken item. Success = 1 additional mod added to item.
To not overcomplicate too much, we will just use the 3 jewel types used in Oz's runic tinker kit script for now, can always add more at a later date.
Emeralds, Rubies, Sapphires. What should each add, specialisation/customisation wise?
Harvesting Skills.
Fishing. Fishermen become the best means of gathering the Gems needed for enhancing. I'm assuming this is just a case of adding it to their loot table.
Lumberjacking and Mining Remain untouched, LJers obviously now can harvest some ML woods(Oak, Yew, Ash).
Powerscrolls. Available for Blacksmithing, Fletching(I think, need to check) Tailoring, Alchemy. 120s available from top level 'shame' mobs. Need to find a suitable place for 110s & 115s.
Anything else we're forgetting? The rarity of resources and total amount needed to create and enhance will need to be looked at at some point, but that can obviously be done once the system itself is working.
Finalising crafting system
Moderators: Benn, Calix, senji
Re: Finalising crafting system
I think as far as the basic system goes, that's pretty spot on and finalised. Just need to decide on the appropriate values/mods attached to the resources.
As far as coding goes, Pretty sure I can code the resources to give the appropriate bonuses, it's just changing a few values around.
I'm not sure exactly how complicated it is to make a certain skill level = a certain type of runic kit, Oz seems to think it's relatively easy.
The Arms Lore check for enhancing might be difficult to code, no idea.
Beyond that, the only other difficult thing is enhancing, I've not had a look @ the enhancing file to know anything about it all yet. Probably the hardest part to change. I also need to look at Inscription but the OSI system probably works ok.
As far as coding goes, Pretty sure I can code the resources to give the appropriate bonuses, it's just changing a few values around.
I'm not sure exactly how complicated it is to make a certain skill level = a certain type of runic kit, Oz seems to think it's relatively easy.
The Arms Lore check for enhancing might be difficult to code, no idea.
Beyond that, the only other difficult thing is enhancing, I've not had a look @ the enhancing file to know anything about it all yet. Probably the hardest part to change. I also need to look at Inscription but the OSI system probably works ok.
Re: Finalising crafting system
i would just say i think you will flood the market with high end gear. You need extra resource requirements, or something otherwise, a trip to destard and your 120 tailor = you making 26272782 barbed runic pieces. (in like a few hours with no luck/rarity attached) Either that, or you seriously ramp up the difficulty of trade skills, ie tailoring is piece of piss to take to 109 i think it is, with oil cloths, like 1/2 nights macroing on osi etc.
Re: Finalising crafting system
Yeah, few things though:
1 mod less than on OSI on all runic tiers (before enhancing)
Increased ingot requirement & rarity
Rarity of 115/120 craft scrolls
Haven't looked at skill gain yet, that's obviously something to consider in testing. Beyond that I don't think it's a problem to have an increased amount of 'good' items out there, levels the playing field a bit.
1 mod less than on OSI on all runic tiers (before enhancing)
Increased ingot requirement & rarity
Rarity of 115/120 craft scrolls
Haven't looked at skill gain yet, that's obviously something to consider in testing. Beyond that I don't think it's a problem to have an increased amount of 'good' items out there, levels the playing field a bit.
Re: Finalising crafting system
completely understand trialboy's points, but think the idea is to make 110+ scrolls pretty rare, and as clx mentioned, increased resource requirements - perhaps make skillgain even tougher gm+ hopefully create a real market for raw resources.
There's no point having loads of shit equipment around, the sooner people can get semi decent resists, or LRC/LMC etc the better. Just raises the bar for what is considered an 'exceptional' item, and shifts the focus away from farming brsk's. I quite like it really. Crafters are always useful, not limited to relying on magical sewing kitz.
There's no point having loads of shit equipment around, the sooner people can get semi decent resists, or LRC/LMC etc the better. Just raises the bar for what is considered an 'exceptional' item, and shifts the focus away from farming brsk's. I quite like it really. Crafters are always useful, not limited to relying on magical sewing kitz.
Down with Scotland
Re: Finalising crafting system
Intensity % on properties can be tweaked to ensure that uber suits are not too common but also not unachievable with a reasonable amount of work.
For example when crafting in the current system I will make literally hundreds of the piece I am crafting to get exactly the right spread of resists after enhancing to minimise imbuing weight. Additionally when crafting elemental hued weapons it takes hundreds and hundreds of items before you get the right poison/fire combo you were looking for. These are the kinks in the system (I don't believe they were designed in for this reason) that make it really engaging for crafting. A dedicated crafter will work for ages, even if it is incredibly mundane, in pursuit of crafting perfection.
...and btw this crafting system officially rocks !
For example when crafting in the current system I will make literally hundreds of the piece I am crafting to get exactly the right spread of resists after enhancing to minimise imbuing weight. Additionally when crafting elemental hued weapons it takes hundreds and hundreds of items before you get the right poison/fire combo you were looking for. These are the kinks in the system (I don't believe they were designed in for this reason) that make it really engaging for crafting. A dedicated crafter will work for ages, even if it is incredibly mundane, in pursuit of crafting perfection.
...and btw this crafting system officially rocks !
Re: Finalising crafting system
Yeah all agreed. Didn't really explain it in post above because it's stuff we'll have to adjust/test afterwards, but we'd want to make it so that getting a 'special' resource (coloured ingots or special leather or whatever) would be quite rare. I don't know how to change yields/rarities on lumber and ore yet, but changing leather to one hide per corpse is easy.
Every skill needs testing for skill gain at some point so it's just more to add to the list in that regard. Also agreed with Attard, it's better to have a broad field of good items around rather than how it was in era. Remember nearly all of us had pure shite items until we did the harrower-spam on Drach, and that was well over a year into AOS.
Any thoughts on the actual mods offered by the various resource types? I can code this stuff myself I think so may as well get it worked out.
We also haven't considered that with the changes to enhancing, normal PvM loot will be affected, not sure how that'll work out.
Every skill needs testing for skill gain at some point so it's just more to add to the list in that regard. Also agreed with Attard, it's better to have a broad field of good items around rather than how it was in era. Remember nearly all of us had pure shite items until we did the harrower-spam on Drach, and that was well over a year into AOS.
Any thoughts on the actual mods offered by the various resource types? I can code this stuff myself I think so may as well get it worked out.
We also haven't considered that with the changes to enhancing, normal PvM loot will be affected, not sure how that'll work out.
Re: Finalising crafting system
@Night/whoever: On OSI, does the type of Runic you use affect the amount of mods you will get, or does that just affect intensities etc, and the amount of mods is dictated by resource type? I can't remember
Re: Finalising crafting system
I think it's both (max: spined=3 horned=4 barbed=5 or similar) but definitely intensities.
Down with Scotland
Re: Finalising crafting system
Yea what the attard said, it's both
Re: Finalising crafting system
k. It's weird, can only find amount of mods in the code for the resource type, unless it's counting the kits as actually BEING those resources as well. Will experiment with code and see.
Re: Finalising crafting system
just a note.
by making the 110+scrolls rare, you actually make it very legacy like. Whoever gets the 1st 120 tailor, can suddenly churn out 16136176171 BRSK quality pieces, and own every champ with raids, as everybody else is stuck with a max 115/110 tailor making horned quality pieces etc.
abit like whoever won the 1st few days in shame on legacy (basically oz who 1v3ed every fucker going) then had the first few ornys etc and then had pure control. Maybe its a little less like that as there are more champs to cover etc than just shame.
btw i am just playing devils advocate with all suggestions, to try ensure we dont make CUTTSMERCOZI-CCOMBO Shard where its what "we" want.
by making the 110+scrolls rare, you actually make it very legacy like. Whoever gets the 1st 120 tailor, can suddenly churn out 16136176171 BRSK quality pieces, and own every champ with raids, as everybody else is stuck with a max 115/110 tailor making horned quality pieces etc.
abit like whoever won the 1st few days in shame on legacy (basically oz who 1v3ed every fucker going) then had the first few ornys etc and then had pure control. Maybe its a little less like that as there are more champs to cover etc than just shame.
btw i am just playing devils advocate with all suggestions, to try ensure we dont make CUTTSMERCOZI-CCOMBO Shard where its what "we" want.
Re: Finalising crafting system
Been messing around with the code a bit, changing around some of the simpler stuff. Do we want to keep enhancing as something just for PvM loot, or do we want it to be available for crafted items as well? The first option is easier to code, and easier to balance, second is nice because it allows more customisation.
Re: Finalising crafting system
id like to see pvm loot have a value, that you know, killing 100 balrons would give 5-10 ar pieces, with mods a shade under barbed/horned, that when enhanced would be on a par?
Otherwise just remove all loot except gold as everything would be crafted :s
Otherwise just remove all loot except gold as everything would be crafted :s
Re: Finalising crafting system
PCM loot armor was always shite, just the odd decent wep. Don't scrap it but don't worry about it too much either.
IMO more important is making newbie gear more accessible so players don't run around with 25 in all resists for too long. I quite liked the idea of newbie dungeons that give special armour peices that can only be equipped if say realskill>700 basic things like high resist chest peice, +stat legs whatever, but that's another thread really - just think we need to focus q bit on early stages activities so people aren't just marching for 2 weeks.
IMO more important is making newbie gear more accessible so players don't run around with 25 in all resists for too long. I quite liked the idea of newbie dungeons that give special armour peices that can only be equipped if say realskill>700 basic things like high resist chest peice, +stat legs whatever, but that's another thread really - just think we need to focus q bit on early stages activities so people aren't just marching for 2 weeks.
Down with Scotland