Crafting, idea mk.XXXXVI

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Calix
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Crafting, idea mk.XXXXVI

Post by Calix »

Right. Reason for looking at this again is mostly that the old idea seems a bastard to code, and no one really wants to do it. I think the below has the same effect.

Runics: Not removed as in the old idea, but become available through harvesting, rather than PvM or BODS. The idea is they become more common, something all crafters can get on a fair basis, not just around who can macro the most BODS, or control the PvM spawn points. There's already enough things like power scrolls and artifacts gained from territorial control, etc. It also helps crafting/harvesting become less monotonous when there is always the possibility of finding such a good reward. It'd also discourage afk resource gathering, because other players would actively be out to hunt down the harvesting players to take these runics. If you're afk, you're going to die a lot.

So, Mr Blacksmith heads off to the mine. He needs ore, preferably a higher end ore such as Verite. He also needs runic hammers to make good items. Both of these can be gained as mining 'loot'. The better the ore, the rarer, the better the hammer, the rarer. Hammers could possibly be coded to only come from an appropriate ore vein? So Valorite hammers would only come from a Valo ore vein.

Same deal for Mr Fletcher. Chop some trees, get wood and kits.

There's no obvious harvesting skills for tailor or tinker kits, and they will be the two most in demand so make them available as fishing rewards. The better the kit, the rarer.

Beyond that, as outlined in the other thread. Improved enhancing(I've already edited a general idea into the code). Also no repair deeds, no powder of fort or the like. Real possibility for items to run low on durability and break. Arms Lore brought into the equation for repairs.

Fatalist
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Re: Crafting, idea mk.XXXXVI

Post by Fatalist »

Could we make some sort of puzzle, or pop up gump or something to somewhat discourage using easyuo to farm up kits? Otherwise we will have an issue with afk resource gatherers and runic items will be worthless.

incredibly rough ideas to give context

i.e

'you spot a strange glimmer amongst the rocks' do you
[a] reach in to grab it (hidden outcomes - 50% chance of retrieving the runic item, 40% chance you push it further away and lose it, 10% chance you scrape your hand on a rusty tool and take damage/get poisoned etc)
use pickaxe/shovel to loosen the item (25% chance of retrieving, 50% of loosening other rocks and covering the item, 25% chance of breaking pickaxe and making the item unreachable)
[c] keep digging - (90% chance of retrieving the item in the next x amount of digs, but the item falls on the floor)

Hopefully this makes sense.
Down with Scotland

Laz
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Re: Crafting, idea mk.XXXXVI

Post by Laz »

Regarding enhancing

Inconsistency is bad, people need to know what different materials add without having to look it up, unless you wanna promote interactivity by keeping it secret and let people find out by performing crafts & enhance with the different materials or asking somebody who has.
By inconsistency i mean you get different bonuses when enhancing armor compared to crafting with the same material in the list you have made.
Enhancing with barbed leather nets you 20 resist, crafting with barbed leather gives + chance of energy resist and lmc (+ of course exceptional bonus (and arms lore?))
When crafting verite armor it gives high poison resist, but when enhancing you get the best chance of poison resist with valorite.

Enhancing an item can give 3 different outcomes, success, failure but item is not lost - just some materials are lost, or item is destroyed.
Breakchance on OSI is maybe too high for my liking, but it is scaled on what you are trying to add and what the existing intensities you are adding to already are. Skill level of relevant skill is also factored in, maybe armslore can be the key to balance it here.
If this stays the same and with the buffed resistgain from enhancing materials in your list it is likely that succes chance will be extremely low.

It also seems to me it is being overcomplicated by incorporating bits of enhancing and bits of imbuing in to it.
IMO Imbuing (adding anything but resists, lower req, durability or luck) ruins shit.
If you decide to incorporate it, make it require a/some super reagent(s) for medium to high intensities, champion/doomboss dropchance? bod reward (see further down) rare resource? reward for sexual favors, whatever you want.
Imagine being able to make a ring + bracelet with dci, lmc, MR, FC, FCR or hci/dci/lmc/di/mr all at max intensity, it is quite powerful, and exactly what Imbuing offers.
A set of armor can be maxed with lmc/mr/mi/lrc by imbuing fairly easily on OSI if you can get the materials, which will result in less demand (if any) for the arti mobs which is less Pvm which is less pkage etc.
A piece of armor or weapon can be enhanced as well as imbued on OSI. Rings and bracelets can be imbued.

A factor to consider is how easy or hard you want to make obtaining an ideal set of armor.
If the estimated average life/attention span for players on a free shard is 3 months then it should probably not take more than that to build up an acceptable suit or people may leave due to stagnation.
However the quicker/easier people get the ubersuits the quicker crafters will take a back seat and may very well fade back to being repair mules. This will be hard to balance right.

Regarding runics.

Imo There is a decent system in place for tailors and smiths on OSI which just need some tweaks. not needing smalls bods to complete large bods would help.
Material requirements for the Large bods that give the highend hammers/kits are gay already - especially so in a new economy (with pretty low chance to make armor exceptional and the highend BODs need that - maybe give arms lore a boost here).
The rarity of these bods is also pretty high, so i dont necesairly think we will see many kits/hammers from this.
Regarding BOD scripters/accounts, one character per account 2 accounts per ip, seems like the perfect counter to this, unless said scripters have unlimited Ip addresses of course.
If Tailor runics as well as Tinker runics are obtained from Fishing i expect that there will be alot more script fishing than BOD mule accounts, but I am possibly completely off on this.
Another benefit of the BOD system is that they also offer other rewards such as Ancient smithing hammers, Stretched hides, colored anvils, gargoyle pickaxes, prospectors tools and other stuff. Some people dig the deco stuff, ASH is very useful as well.
Maybe disallow Clothing bless deeds if you do not like them as well as Power scrolls if you want to keep them as Pvm loot, I like that idea.
Sandals (disable neon colors!) maybe they can be somehow added in the alternative vet robe/cloak categori and be another fashion option. Just a minor idea to give something back if you take out PS and CBD, I dunno.
I have no idea about Tinker runics as I have not read about them, but putting them in Fishing seems ideal, you will then have to obtain all of the runic kits in different ways, and there is not one resource for several Runic Tools.

Those were my views on your crafting ideas, can be a very solid system if done right.

Keep it real

Laz

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Re: Crafting, idea mk.XXXXVI

Post by Toki »

I love Laz
[IMG]http://i64.tinypic.com/6rpqma.jpg[/IMG]

Calix
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Re: Crafting, idea mk.XXXXVI

Post by Calix »

Cheers.

With the enhancing - I was being stupid and the code didn't do what I thought - actually abandoned that to go back to the OSI methods as of yesterday. Improved the basic PvM loot packs instead to hopefully have the same effect(improved PvM loot)

You're right about the time/effort taken to obtain an optimum or near optimum suit. That's a massive thing and needs a lot of testing. The 3 month attention span thing is something we need to work on anyway - why is it lower than on OSI? Getting the crafting system right has to be a part of that.

I really don't want to use the BOD system. I know a lot of people grew to love it, but for the reasons outlined in the other threads, I want to stay away from it. Besides, most of the rewards(cloth, powders, etc) we aren't even going to use! You're probably right that the scripting side of things wouldn't be an issue with the character/IP limit. The fishing idea isn't great I agree, it's just there's not any other harvesting skills and I'm out of better ideas!

If the BOD system isn't going in - any other ideas for crafting? You evidently know a ton more about this than me.

Laz
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Re: Crafting, idea mk.XXXXVI

Post by Laz »

Crafting spellbooks
Properties are based on magery value 80=max 1, 100=max 2, 120= max3 or something similare but I don't remember exactly.
Inscription skill only decide whether you make the item or not.
Majority of spellbooks are made without properties, 1 property is uncommon, 2 semi rare, 3 seems rare.
Not sure if intensities of properties are reflected by skillvalue of Inscription or Magery.
Properties on spellbooks can be: MR, LMC, LRC, FC, FCR, SDI, random slayer, + skill in eval, magery, meditation or resisting spells.

No Bod system
is np - maybe treasure chests/MiB (don't know how they work, I have never fished) could have a chance to drop runics.
Bods were a way for crafters to gain some fame - we may not care, but maybe others do.
Tailor runics being probably the most desirable runic tool, maybe it can be incorportated in to factions ? this would attract faction crafters and the need to own cities or something.
Maybe make tailor runics obtainable by fishing and Tinker runics faction related instead of fishing, faction tinkers also make traps? (I don't have much experience with factions) so it is kind of related.
Imo there is nothing wrong with keeping jewelry obtainable by pvm only untill a faction system can be put in place.
You can also keep it in line with how runics drop for other skills, and make tailor runics drop from skinning (not a fan of the lack of logic with this) and make the chance of them dropping from skinning require tailoring (coding nightmare?).

Longevity
Designing things that will keep people "hooked" and doing so without taking up too much of your time, ultimately you just wanna play UO - that is what this is all about.

Where do you stand on Soulstones/fragments (i think fragments are crafted and limited use?) being account bound they are limited use other than wanting to swap to a different template for your one character.

In the spirit of durability on items being limited, you might want consider removing the self repair property from the mix if it isn't already.

Crafter templates:
Most common skills will be:
tailoring
tinkering
arms lore
fishing
magery

Leaving ~200 points which leaves plenty of room to choose, these are some ideas:

flechting + lumberjack
Blacksmith + mining
stealing + pikcing for arrrrties
hide + stealth for dodging pk's
meditation + eval for gathering leather/pvm
alchemy + ??
mining + ?? chance of hammers=$$ maybe make hammers more likely/only for chars who also have BS?
Taming + Animal lore for lolPvm

Laz

Fatalist
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Re: Crafting, idea mk.XXXXVI

Post by Fatalist »

Laz have a read of my factions suggestion, one of the stickies I think, it includes a lot of stuff that might be able to tie in with crafting changes you've suggested.
Down with Scotland

Laz
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Re: Crafting, idea mk.XXXXVI

Post by Laz »

Fatalist wrote:Laz have a read of my factions suggestion, one of the stickies I think, it includes a lot of stuff that might be able to tie in with crafting changes you've suggested.
I have mate, and I completely nicked the idea from there.

Fatalist
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Re: Crafting, idea mk.XXXXVI

Post by Fatalist »

WANKER

(love you)
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Calix
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Re: Crafting, idea mk.XXXXVI

Post by Calix »

Just reading now. There's another priv forum for the shard with a load more spam by me, need to get Benn to access you seems as I can't remember my forum pw to get into admin section..

Calix
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Re: Crafting, idea mk.XXXXVI

Post by Calix »

Worst, just lost massive reply to this. Work connection of deth. Will repost tomorrow.


Edit: Just listing crafting rewards we do and don't want for myself for later.

Want:
Crafting skill power scrolls.
Runic kits.

Don't want.
Powders
Neon Cloths

Laz
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Re: Crafting, idea mk.XXXXVI

Post by Laz »

Had a slightly different idea regarding runic tools last night.

The standard versions of tools (tailor kits, smith hammers, tinker tools, fletching kit) are all crafted by a tinker.

Ideally the aim is to incorporate 4 different runic tools all obtained from different resource gathering, the problem is that UO only has 3 gathering skills.

So the Idea I had was that when you get lucky enough to have a runic drop from your resources, it is at that point not a finished runic, but more of a runic whatchamightcallit that needs to be worked by a GM tinker to award a random runic kit of random power.

Imagine mining the runic resource and you get a message like "Inside the ore you mine, you notice a source of ancient runic mojo" or some appropiate text, it is at that point not a runic tool, but after som modification by a GM tinker - possibly with a resource cost - it will be made into one of the 4 types of kits at some level.
If you want to make it less random, make it require resources to mold the runic resource so the Tinker can select what kind of tool, but probably not the quality of the tool.

Laz

Edit: Just read a post on the private board suggesting the same. You can disregard this.

Calix
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Re: Crafting, idea mk.XXXXVI

Post by Calix »

I think it's probably the best way to go though. Makes more sense than a hammer just dropping in your pack from mining. Maybe you could even need to gather parts from 2-3 different harvesting skills to make a complete runic. It's all extra coding, but seems as we're in no rush...

Calix
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Re: Crafting, idea mk.XXXXVI

Post by Calix »

So, going back to this.

What about if:

The parts/components required to make a runic drop from harvesting. LJing, Mining, Fishing. You need perhaps 3 parts to create a runic. We could possibly use the ML Gems like Ecru's for this?

Few ways to break it down:

1.

2 components = low level runic
3 = slightly higher
4 = midrange
etc etc. Component type being unimportant, and you being able to pick whether the kit is tailoring, tinkering, smithing or fletching from a menu gump.

2.
Different components could make different types of runics. There's 6 ML gems and we could obviously include other things as well - perhaps the normal Gems not used in the runic tinker kit equation.

So for example: Blue diamonds are the required component to make smithing runics. If you have 5, that's enough to make say a Dull Copper Hammer. 50 being enough to make a Valorite hammer. The higher level the type of runic you attempt to make, the greater chance of the resources being lost and the runic creation failing.

Loads of ideas. This is a nightmare to think about and probably be even more of a nightmare to code! Any thoughts?

Calix
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Re: Crafting, idea mk.XXXXVI

Post by Calix »

This is still raping me a bit.

What about a hand in system, similar to BODS I guess, but based on handing in resources to NPCs? You could pick rewards, but obviously the higher end stuff would only be available after a massive resource hand in AND if the character had sufficient skill level, say 115 Smithing for a Verite Hammer, for example?

Just another idea to add to the list!

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